Not surprised that Russia can't be bothered listening to them. And that's the opinion of the Russian Foreign Affairs Minister, a diplomat who should be better able to tolerate double speak and lies.
I've always enjoyed Sergey... After all he's a Sergey!
As for Russia after 20+ years of Western mockery they finally decided to move into what they think it's best for them.
Since I'm a slave slaving in Europe I'm not expecting a great future but that's the price I've to pay for letting scoundrels and terrorists rule and doing very little to avoid it.
I'm just waiting that the coming Winter really ANNIHILATES all the propaganda and smokes screens that the jesters/terrorists in office (elected and non-elected) have been spewing. Nothing like watching herds of modern moron slaves grunting!
You have it right, I think. Ultimately there's no doubt we are responsible. We have this democratic machinery notionally and if we don't use it and just leave them to play in their own little world there's no doubt they'll get up to all this kind of chicanery and pure madness.
We should be interacting individually with our elected representatives on a continual basis.
Even if only 10% of us did so they'd be overwhelmed with communications and would behave differently and force their respective 'two party' camps to modify their behaviour.
But not even 10% of us do it.
And I doubt we ever will.
I think I am a hundred times more the activist in this respect than any of my peers.
Yet at my most active I send maybe a couple of dozen emails and posted a few hand made handbills.
And all that in this last two years in the throes of the covid madness. Before and since, nothing.
The "democratic" sub-system is built to work this way... No amount of phone calls, letters, e-mails, street protests and so on will ever make a dent in the upper levels of our current civilization organization:
Well I think that's a very pessimistic view. I beg to differ.
I believe it was 'designed' way back by the Greeks (in essence) to institutionalise fairness and I think it has been expanded upon since then in the same way.
And I think the best function democracy is to enable people to govern themselves in their own interest.
However it demands that people participate in the governing process.
Really participate.
Not just roll up and reluctantly cast a vote every few years.
But participate continually and constantly and intelligently, truthfully.
And that's the problem. People are apparently no ready for democracy.
It has been said the best form of government would be benevolent dictatorship. Half joking and half serious perhaps.
Well it appears to me this is exactly what people want. Whether they know it or not.
For they leave 'the leaders' to do as they wish until the pain gets too great, participating not at all in the process.
Then when the pain does get too great they still do not participate in the process but opt for demonstrations, street parades, protest marches and such.
Making themselves an unruly, threatening and incoherently disorganised easy mark for authorities to aim at and suppress in the name of keeping the peace.
What they clearly want is 'someone' to do 'something'.
i.e. Superman to come down from the clouds and fix everything.
Or: more realistically though still highly improbable: a 'benevolent dictator' to suddenly appear.
This appears to be the whole substance of their demands. The whole of their desires. Given this they'll go back to sleep; have no further interest in the political process.
Yes. I see democracy as the best of (imperfect) systems in this imperfect world but a system that suffers that one, apparently overwhelming, defect: it requires constant attention from those who do not want to give constant attention.
It is a system for theorists and those of political bent.
"Pessimism" is just some word carrying a felling that many choose to use in order to escape Reality and what needs to be done. Generally it leads to some sort of "Hoping" which is nothing more nothing less than waiting for something to happen without "me" not having to do much.
Fairness in Greece?! I can't recall any evidence of a Fair Greece.
"However it demands that people participate in the governing process.
Really participate."
The "governing" process of our current "democracies" has many code breakers that are set in place precisely to avoid that the herds of MMS can interfere in the actual governance of the plantation (aka country).
Even in Switzerland with their many referendums they have the same tools to avoid that the "will of the [people]MMS" never becomes law. If the matter is light and doesn't interfere with the Desires and Orders of the Owners then the process ends in a law.
After the "votes" are counted there is nothing more the herds of MMS can do to alter the decisions made well above the sphere of "government".
There is no easy way to end this democratic slavery... We are so conditioned (many generations) to accept it that the mere glimpse of Freedom and Responsibility causes the Thought to send chemical triggers to the Organism and so we start to tremble with Fear. And so we do nothing and keep on slaving, democratically of course.
Let's take your phrase 'end democratic slavery'. If it were democratic slavery in the sense of people being slaves to the democratic process, which is what I'd suppose you to mean, then people would carry out all the requisite steps of the democratic process. As 'slaves' to it they'd have no choice.
But as I've said they actually do not participate at all.
Hence there's a basic, a fundamental and great difference between the way you see things and the way I see them.
The UN youtube page has his speech, translated in English. I cross checked it with your transcript and they match, with one or two miniscule exceptions.
It may be useful for you as an edit source or for your readers, to follow along with as they read.
Thanks for that. That YT vid is where I started. I didn't see any transcript unless you mean the YT machine generated? The text below the vid has excerpts only I think.
That machine generated is where I began. I merely edited it a little.
"At the time he [Zelensky] said anyone who feels themselves to be Russian for the benefit of their children and grandchildren to get out and to go to Russia and that's what the inhabitants of those regions are doing.
They are taking their land with them where their ancestors had been living for hundreds of years."
Great point made here by Lavrov, and an amusingly clever one too.
The Russian leaning Ukrainian are doing as Zelensky said; joining Russia, and taking their traditional lands with them.
Yep. I particularly like the invoking of the idea of 'flavours'.
We need a couple of new flavours. Strong, powerful and completely submerging and squashing all other flavours.
The first one the flavour of people taking in their own hands the political machinations of their nation my constant interaction with their own local reps..
and the second the flavour of honesty and truth, the flavour of people making a true and conscientious effort to promote these.
Wow, thanks for your efforts, Arthur! Very telling speech, and while none of what he said surprises me in the least, it's still worthwhile to see someone speaking something other than malicious lies and propaganda... !!!
He says,
"They threaten to twist the arms of anyone who dares think for themselves and demand by threats that countries join in with anti-russian sanctions.
That doesn't work very well but it is very clear that these acts by United States and its satellites is not democracy.
It's pure unadulterated dictatorship or an attempt to impose it."
His words sound VERY much like what many of us "Truthers" here in the Five Eyes have been saying, much of it on Substack... And so I can relate very much to what you, Arthur, refer to as "deeply hurt and disillusioned." Because I, too, am deeply hurt and disillusioned by what is going on, in my govt., in my country (US), and in the "West" generally. It's not "the Americans" doing this military Evil all over the world, it's the corrupted government and their running of the military. WE the People are not asked whether or not we wish to behave this way, WE the People have never voted on ransacking the Middle East, Africa, or our Southern Neighbors... It's clearly bully behavior coming from the US, and also from the rest of the West, but the PEOPLE are left out of the equation, and not just that, but we are bullshitted at every turn. Despicable. I never thought I'd take side with Russia, but I agree with Lavrov.
Dr Igor Shepherd: Now think about that; why would any communist nation who has never been willing to allow democracy, faith, or freedom inside their borders, and persecutes those who do, suddenly want to mesh with the free nations who undermine their stringent principles? How do you globalize nations who are free with those nations who rule with tyranny? How does that work? How can it work? And why would Russia’s Putin, who is a member of the UN’s sustainable development, and whose aspirations have always been to spread communism throughout the world, start a war with Ukraine’s Zelenskyy, another fellow globalist, and undermine those same desired goals?
"Dr Igor Shepherd: Now think about that; why would any communist nation who has never been willing to allow democracy, ....." etc.
That first sentence postulates a string of untruths and then poses a question based on them.
The second question is answered right now today by the global interaction with Kiev.
The third and fourth are answered respectively: 'Badly', 'It cannot.'
And the fifth postulates a false aspiration, postulates a false initiative, postulate a false association and then asks a question dependent upon these.
It is paragraphs like those that prevent sensible debate, discussion and education all over the world right now.
I would agree and disagree with your statement about Dr. Igor...understanding that this is the first I've ever heard of him.
I agree, that these countries have evolved over the decades to understand, that capitalism, as a national economic vehicle, is a good thing. You sell your goods, produced with cheap labor to the world, for a profit...pure capitalism. If you can corner the market on products and services, that is all the better...build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door. We see this with many items we use here in the U.S, semi-conductors not being the least of which. Russia is doing the same thing. This winter Europe will fully see, just how well Russia understand the Supply & Demand concept of capitalism, where heating gas, is concerned.
These two countries are exhibiting what many scholars identified as a State Capitalist System. One where is that the "Regime" wields expanding de facto and de jure power over nearly all areas of political and economic activity in a given State/Country.
This is evidenced by how the products, they sell to support their capitalistic economies, are produced...and how their general populations are treated or allowed to conduct themselves. Discounting any of the westerns propaganda, just considering the reports from citizens inside these States...one could easily assume the communist government ideology and control is alive and well.
Now, we are not far behind in the West (consider the draconian covid mandates). While we were not welding people into their homes and apartment buildings to quarantine them, we were sending them to camps and rounding them up for a mask (that does nothing) being positioned, below their offending noses.
I think Mr. Lavrov, makes some very good points about the hypocrisy of the new Global West. However, we must guard against naming heroes and villains, in ANYTHING we see happening, in todays world. Lavrov and Putin are also products of the Cold War. While Russia may be justified in the defense of their borders and the Donbas people, it in no way means they have turned over a new ideological leaf. As, corrupted and heinous as we have come to realize our Western governments are (individually & collectively), China's and Russia's leaders are no different...powerful Elites, with deeply rooted ideologies or new found global loyalties, bent on implementing agendas, at any price.
Mr. Lavrov rightly states the philosophical imperative, that they all operate by...you're either with us or against us. It is always adopted as an admonishment from the underdog, to the tyrants...and then when the underdog is back on top, it is a declaration of moral superiority.
I don't trust any of them either. But I find it interesting to note, at least it seems to me, that all the folks who vociferously defend capitalism and the "free market" are those who have benefited from it, ie, played the game and made a good living; those who have been part of the LABOR of that system have an entirely different story to tell.
It has always been that way, no matter the political or economic system.
What I think many are waking to is, that no matter the ideological label, Elites pull the strings and benefit, and as you point out, the peasants suffer and pay for the plans and agendas of those Elites, in varying degrees.
Hypocrisy hangs on all sides, no matter how hard they try to make you think, it's only the other side, that wears it.
Not so sure it has "always" been that way. Many of the Native American tribes didn't live that way. And there have been others, it's just that we're not told about them, or we don't have any written proof of it-- but there is evidence. You say you don't believe what politicians say, so think about the possibility that we've been lied to, about sooo many things, for thousands of years...
I would also suggest that saying "it's always been that way" is a way to stop thinking about changing it or doing anything differently.
Just the word you use, "elites," when talking about people who are different from the rest of us because we've been coerced into allowing it. That could end. After all, they're not "elites," only elitist. I won't call them "elites," because they are not.
I think instead of spending our time thinking about how we can't change something, we could be spending our time thinking about how we CAN.
Let me be clearer in my explanation, it's obvious I was not, in that previous reply.
"It's always been that way", is not waving a white flag of surrender, it is saying, suspect everything and everyone, that were and are in positions of power. That also includes long held narratives and truth.
Elites...this may be quibbling over semantics, but in the system we live in, the string pullers are Elites and in most cases were elevated by the peasants, especially the lowest elite class.
Do I consider them above me, as human beings? No, they eat, breath, dress (the act of), and defecate just as I do. They are not ethereal or God like, they are humans, no more or less, than I.
While you and I have not done so, many peasants, have elevated these Elites, in stature above themselves. This elevation is a direct process at the lowest levels and then done by proxy, as each elite stratum elevates the next.
Many ask, "how is that?"
The easy and seemingly benign example is hero worship and idolization of a sports fan. How many have spent thousands of dollars (yearly) on tickets, jersey or memorability, of a sports figure?
They will spend hard earned money (even in hard economic times) to wear a shirt, emblazoned with another human's name. Not their own name or that of their relative, but a stranger...a millionaire, playing a game...that has no idea the jersey wearer even exists.. It becomes even more preposterous, when you consider that the sports figure, contributes nothing tangible to the peasants life...they don't contribute to their household budget, restore their power after a storm, unclog a toilet, feed their children or come and extinguish a house fire. In wearing this badge of fealty, they show the world that they hold the named person above themselves and in a deluded way think they gain status and glory, from the paid for one sided association. This applies to actors, musicians, authors, MSM figures, influencers and the like. Anyone who's job it is to sell you a product, message or ideology, through an entertaining media. None of these peddlers, could have risen to any height, if they were not patronized, repeatedly.
Within our current and many past civilizations, the humans at the top (the string pullers) were and are the Elites. Does that mean they are untouchable or unable to be toppled...no, history has shown that.
It does mean, until they are toppled, they alone or collectively steer the larger direction of societies and global realities...not us. We only need go back to the last 3 years, for proof.
Lastly, I've never said that things can't be changed. My premise is, in order to change anything, you must understand your adversary and then the battlefield you are fighting on. That goes for the everyday battles as well as the overall War.
You believe the Western media propaganda that Chinese and Russian goods are "produced with cheap labor" and somehow seem oblivious of the economic miracles both countries have performed, lifting billions out of poverty!
Also - Lavrov used the phrase "you are either with us or against us" while describing NATO powers attitude. Don't forget that this phrase is associated with Dubya Bush during his so-called War on Terror.....
I believe the reports from Chinese and Russian citizens themselves, as to the conditions they live and labor under, not the reports from Western, Chinese or Russian government officials, with agendas to push.
None of these regimes have ever been innocent of abuses of their power or their people. It has all been self serving for the Elites...the story, as you know, is one that has been playing, on a tape loop, for centuries.
There are no "across the board" absolutes, in the political arena today...and never were.
We must be wise and keen enough, to balance our understandings and perspectives with the fact that ALL national leaders and regimes, will use lies and propaganda to obfuscate or hide a truth.
The Holodomor, is a great example of this, for two reasons 1) it cannot be attributed as Western propaganda (after Glasnost, soviet records verified the deaths and practices). 2) The Soviets denied it, even after it was reported by Gareth Jones.
America has it's similar episodes in there dealings with American Indians, Slaves and the internment of Japanese Americans, during WWII. In each episode, there was some leader, extoling the their sides virtues, while ignoring or hiding their atrocities.
All countries and regimes are capable of these lies and falsehood.
As I said, I don't think Lavrov, is wrong in his speech, but I don't trust his intent.
Something I am curious about (but dreading-selfishly), is the eventual move from the petro dollar to a BRICS like standard. Curious, because if/when that happens, you will see those country's leaders, stand in the yellow foot prints, being held by Western leaders today...and they will be saying "you're either with us or against us".
It may be a moot point, if the Globalists, get a digital currency implemented in short order. If that happens, the chess board, will effectively be tipped and knocked to the floor...that's a different post though.
"America has it's similar episodes in there dealings with American Indians, Slaves and the internment of Japanese Americans, during WWII. In each episode, there was some leader, extoling the their sides virtues, while ignoring or hiding their atrocities."
I agree with much of what you're saying on this post, so don't take this wrong, but these atrocities never stopped. Later days must include a slow dumbing down of the populace, slow economic punishment as in the rising cost of living and the absolute stagnation of wages since the 70's, the continuing, but often hidden racist machinations, and all along, never-ending rendering of women to second-class status and the slow sexualization of children...
The USA was always run by the Parasite (Filthy Rich) Class, with only a few bit of sunlight in there, and those wiped out very quickly.
I also think Lavrov, while not being Utterly Trustworthy (why would that be an expectation, anyway?), sounds to me FAR more like a democratic and reasonable person than ANYONE blathering from the US these days...
What is going on is a reason for DEEP CONCERN to me, economically and otherwise, because what I see as the goal is the absolute subjugation of the American People, and then the rest of the world. Behind all these politicians and those we think of as "oligarchs," are the REAL puppet masters, those who never show their faces, or rarely, and who WANT US DEAD, almost entirely. They are not sane, but control some 90% of the wealth. And they must be stopped.
Yep. I just like to remember that we already have the mechanism for fixing all this. It is called the democratic process. A very enlightened and sophisticated piece of social organisation I think. I know of none better.
But, I think, too enlightened, too sophisticated and too much demanding of participation than the majority, the vast majority, of use find acceptable.
very well stated and great addition to fleshing out the American obfuscation.
This for me is why understanding the modern class system (that transcends national boundaries) is so imperative, to the awakening, many are having, after the scamdemic.
It allows people to drop the distraction of national finger pointing and focus on the true orchestrators, of where we are today...the Elites.
The mistake the peasants of old made, was swallowing the propaganda that focused their suspicions on leaders and countries outside their borders and not suspecting their own governments (local and national) of corruption and atrocities.
I have linked this transcript to my post today. Many thanks for your efforts.
I am not at all surprised that the Russians have limited their contact with the Anglo-Saxons.
The behaviour of NATO member countries at the UNSC and the UNGA has been horrific, judgemental and loaded with ignorance, insult and barefaced lies.
@ Frances Leader
Precisely the kind of behaviour we've come to expect from our (mis)leaders. :(
I read in these columns that there's an official translation available here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MopbeWwvRc
But I went there and found only the YT video with extracts.
However I pass it on.
Thank you for the transcribing Arthur.
Negative moral high ground from the West.
Not surprised that Russia can't be bothered listening to them. And that's the opinion of the Russian Foreign Affairs Minister, a diplomat who should be better able to tolerate double speak and lies.
But he's had enough.
I've always enjoyed Sergey... After all he's a Sergey!
As for Russia after 20+ years of Western mockery they finally decided to move into what they think it's best for them.
Since I'm a slave slaving in Europe I'm not expecting a great future but that's the price I've to pay for letting scoundrels and terrorists rule and doing very little to avoid it.
I'm just waiting that the coming Winter really ANNIHILATES all the propaganda and smokes screens that the jesters/terrorists in office (elected and non-elected) have been spewing. Nothing like watching herds of modern moron slaves grunting!
And YES... it is indeed hopeless.
You have it right, I think. Ultimately there's no doubt we are responsible. We have this democratic machinery notionally and if we don't use it and just leave them to play in their own little world there's no doubt they'll get up to all this kind of chicanery and pure madness.
We should be interacting individually with our elected representatives on a continual basis.
Even if only 10% of us did so they'd be overwhelmed with communications and would behave differently and force their respective 'two party' camps to modify their behaviour.
But not even 10% of us do it.
And I doubt we ever will.
I think I am a hundred times more the activist in this respect than any of my peers.
Yet at my most active I send maybe a couple of dozen emails and posted a few hand made handbills.
And all that in this last two years in the throes of the covid madness. Before and since, nothing.
I clearly see I am to blame for what I get.
The "democratic" sub-system is built to work this way... No amount of phone calls, letters, e-mails, street protests and so on will ever make a dent in the upper levels of our current civilization organization:
https://i.postimg.cc/mZzr8xqj/Civiliza-o-Actual-EN-Inclusive-Capitalism.jpg
The BEST function of DEMOCRACY is to give SLAVES the FREEDOM to CONSUME
This sub-system also has other good functions...
And to finish I always say "Irresponsible therefor I VOTE"!
Well I think that's a very pessimistic view. I beg to differ.
I believe it was 'designed' way back by the Greeks (in essence) to institutionalise fairness and I think it has been expanded upon since then in the same way.
And I think the best function democracy is to enable people to govern themselves in their own interest.
However it demands that people participate in the governing process.
Really participate.
Not just roll up and reluctantly cast a vote every few years.
But participate continually and constantly and intelligently, truthfully.
And that's the problem. People are apparently no ready for democracy.
It has been said the best form of government would be benevolent dictatorship. Half joking and half serious perhaps.
Well it appears to me this is exactly what people want. Whether they know it or not.
For they leave 'the leaders' to do as they wish until the pain gets too great, participating not at all in the process.
Then when the pain does get too great they still do not participate in the process but opt for demonstrations, street parades, protest marches and such.
Making themselves an unruly, threatening and incoherently disorganised easy mark for authorities to aim at and suppress in the name of keeping the peace.
What they clearly want is 'someone' to do 'something'.
i.e. Superman to come down from the clouds and fix everything.
Or: more realistically though still highly improbable: a 'benevolent dictator' to suddenly appear.
This appears to be the whole substance of their demands. The whole of their desires. Given this they'll go back to sleep; have no further interest in the political process.
Yes. I see democracy as the best of (imperfect) systems in this imperfect world but a system that suffers that one, apparently overwhelming, defect: it requires constant attention from those who do not want to give constant attention.
It is a system for theorists and those of political bent.
Not a system, it would seem, for the hoi polloi.
Then what?
I don't know.
"Pessimism" is just some word carrying a felling that many choose to use in order to escape Reality and what needs to be done. Generally it leads to some sort of "Hoping" which is nothing more nothing less than waiting for something to happen without "me" not having to do much.
Fairness in Greece?! I can't recall any evidence of a Fair Greece.
"However it demands that people participate in the governing process.
Really participate."
The "governing" process of our current "democracies" has many code breakers that are set in place precisely to avoid that the herds of MMS can interfere in the actual governance of the plantation (aka country).
Even in Switzerland with their many referendums they have the same tools to avoid that the "will of the [people]MMS" never becomes law. If the matter is light and doesn't interfere with the Desires and Orders of the Owners then the process ends in a law.
After the "votes" are counted there is nothing more the herds of MMS can do to alter the decisions made well above the sphere of "government".
There is no easy way to end this democratic slavery... We are so conditioned (many generations) to accept it that the mere glimpse of Freedom and Responsibility causes the Thought to send chemical triggers to the Organism and so we start to tremble with Fear. And so we do nothing and keep on slaving, democratically of course.
Well I'm sorry but I cannot agree with you.
Let's take your phrase 'end democratic slavery'. If it were democratic slavery in the sense of people being slaves to the democratic process, which is what I'd suppose you to mean, then people would carry out all the requisite steps of the democratic process. As 'slaves' to it they'd have no choice.
But as I've said they actually do not participate at all.
Hence there's a basic, a fundamental and great difference between the way you see things and the way I see them.
All you have to do is to forget theoretical definitions... The "democracy" running around has nothing to do with the theory/definition of it.
Just like with "capitalism"!
With what is in existence today the required and allowed participation is the "vote" from time to time...
As for "end democratic slavery" unfortunately that's not what I mean.
Great job transcribing this.
The UN youtube page has his speech, translated in English. I cross checked it with your transcript and they match, with one or two miniscule exceptions.
It may be useful for you as an edit source or for your readers, to follow along with as they read.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MopbeWwvRc
@ connecting the dots
Thanks for that. That YT vid is where I started. I didn't see any transcript unless you mean the YT machine generated? The text below the vid has excerpts only I think.
That machine generated is where I began. I merely edited it a little.
I didn't explain that very well...it was the machine transcript in the your post...I read that as I listened to the YT video.
Sorry for the confusion.
"At the time he [Zelensky] said anyone who feels themselves to be Russian for the benefit of their children and grandchildren to get out and to go to Russia and that's what the inhabitants of those regions are doing.
They are taking their land with them where their ancestors had been living for hundreds of years."
Great point made here by Lavrov, and an amusingly clever one too.
The Russian leaning Ukrainian are doing as Zelensky said; joining Russia, and taking their traditional lands with them.
Very much appreciate this translation . Thank you Arthur.
Yep. I particularly like the invoking of the idea of 'flavours'.
We need a couple of new flavours. Strong, powerful and completely submerging and squashing all other flavours.
The first one the flavour of people taking in their own hands the political machinations of their nation my constant interaction with their own local reps..
and the second the flavour of honesty and truth, the flavour of people making a true and conscientious effort to promote these.
:)
@Connecting the Dots
Thanks for that. An eye opener. And sobering, I think... Don't know what to make of it as yet...
Wow, thanks for your efforts, Arthur! Very telling speech, and while none of what he said surprises me in the least, it's still worthwhile to see someone speaking something other than malicious lies and propaganda... !!!
He says,
"They threaten to twist the arms of anyone who dares think for themselves and demand by threats that countries join in with anti-russian sanctions.
That doesn't work very well but it is very clear that these acts by United States and its satellites is not democracy.
It's pure unadulterated dictatorship or an attempt to impose it."
His words sound VERY much like what many of us "Truthers" here in the Five Eyes have been saying, much of it on Substack... And so I can relate very much to what you, Arthur, refer to as "deeply hurt and disillusioned." Because I, too, am deeply hurt and disillusioned by what is going on, in my govt., in my country (US), and in the "West" generally. It's not "the Americans" doing this military Evil all over the world, it's the corrupted government and their running of the military. WE the People are not asked whether or not we wish to behave this way, WE the People have never voted on ransacking the Middle East, Africa, or our Southern Neighbors... It's clearly bully behavior coming from the US, and also from the rest of the West, but the PEOPLE are left out of the equation, and not just that, but we are bullshitted at every turn. Despicable. I never thought I'd take side with Russia, but I agree with Lavrov.
Even better is the press conference...
https://rumble.com/v1le9gt-fm-lavrov-gives-press-conference-following-un-speech.html
thank you
Dr Igor Shepherd: Now think about that; why would any communist nation who has never been willing to allow democracy, faith, or freedom inside their borders, and persecutes those who do, suddenly want to mesh with the free nations who undermine their stringent principles? How do you globalize nations who are free with those nations who rule with tyranny? How does that work? How can it work? And why would Russia’s Putin, who is a member of the UN’s sustainable development, and whose aspirations have always been to spread communism throughout the world, start a war with Ukraine’s Zelenskyy, another fellow globalist, and undermine those same desired goals?
Re: Kathleen Marquardt post commencing with:
"Dr Igor Shepherd: Now think about that; why would any communist nation who has never been willing to allow democracy, ....." etc.
That first sentence postulates a string of untruths and then poses a question based on them.
The second question is answered right now today by the global interaction with Kiev.
The third and fourth are answered respectively: 'Badly', 'It cannot.'
And the fifth postulates a false aspiration, postulates a false initiative, postulate a false association and then asks a question dependent upon these.
It is paragraphs like those that prevent sensible debate, discussion and education all over the world right now.
Thank you
Igor Shepherd is a fool. He thinks this is the 60s. He really needs to catch up with democracy in Russia and stop warmongering.
Neither Russia nor China are communist now. Both are better at capitalism than any of the 5 Eyes totalitarians.
Dead right. What's '5 Eyes' ? That's a new one on me.
It was for me too...
https://www.dni.gov/index.php/ncsc-how-we-work/217-about/organization/icig-pages/2660-icig-fiorc
UK, US, Australia, New Zealand and Canada. These are all connected by the Crown Corporation and their secret services.
https://francesleader.substack.com/p/five-slave-nations
Frances, I posted a link to the UN Youtube translation of his speech above, thought you might want it, for reference purposes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MopbeWwvRc
I would agree and disagree with your statement about Dr. Igor...understanding that this is the first I've ever heard of him.
I agree, that these countries have evolved over the decades to understand, that capitalism, as a national economic vehicle, is a good thing. You sell your goods, produced with cheap labor to the world, for a profit...pure capitalism. If you can corner the market on products and services, that is all the better...build a better mouse trap and the world will beat a path to your door. We see this with many items we use here in the U.S, semi-conductors not being the least of which. Russia is doing the same thing. This winter Europe will fully see, just how well Russia understand the Supply & Demand concept of capitalism, where heating gas, is concerned.
These two countries are exhibiting what many scholars identified as a State Capitalist System. One where is that the "Regime" wields expanding de facto and de jure power over nearly all areas of political and economic activity in a given State/Country.
This is evidenced by how the products, they sell to support their capitalistic economies, are produced...and how their general populations are treated or allowed to conduct themselves. Discounting any of the westerns propaganda, just considering the reports from citizens inside these States...one could easily assume the communist government ideology and control is alive and well.
Now, we are not far behind in the West (consider the draconian covid mandates). While we were not welding people into their homes and apartment buildings to quarantine them, we were sending them to camps and rounding them up for a mask (that does nothing) being positioned, below their offending noses.
I think Mr. Lavrov, makes some very good points about the hypocrisy of the new Global West. However, we must guard against naming heroes and villains, in ANYTHING we see happening, in todays world. Lavrov and Putin are also products of the Cold War. While Russia may be justified in the defense of their borders and the Donbas people, it in no way means they have turned over a new ideological leaf. As, corrupted and heinous as we have come to realize our Western governments are (individually & collectively), China's and Russia's leaders are no different...powerful Elites, with deeply rooted ideologies or new found global loyalties, bent on implementing agendas, at any price.
Mr. Lavrov rightly states the philosophical imperative, that they all operate by...you're either with us or against us. It is always adopted as an admonishment from the underdog, to the tyrants...and then when the underdog is back on top, it is a declaration of moral superiority.
I don't trust any of them!!
I don't trust any of them either. But I find it interesting to note, at least it seems to me, that all the folks who vociferously defend capitalism and the "free market" are those who have benefited from it, ie, played the game and made a good living; those who have been part of the LABOR of that system have an entirely different story to tell.
It has always been that way, no matter the political or economic system.
What I think many are waking to is, that no matter the ideological label, Elites pull the strings and benefit, and as you point out, the peasants suffer and pay for the plans and agendas of those Elites, in varying degrees.
Hypocrisy hangs on all sides, no matter how hard they try to make you think, it's only the other side, that wears it.
Not so sure it has "always" been that way. Many of the Native American tribes didn't live that way. And there have been others, it's just that we're not told about them, or we don't have any written proof of it-- but there is evidence. You say you don't believe what politicians say, so think about the possibility that we've been lied to, about sooo many things, for thousands of years...
I would also suggest that saying "it's always been that way" is a way to stop thinking about changing it or doing anything differently.
Just the word you use, "elites," when talking about people who are different from the rest of us because we've been coerced into allowing it. That could end. After all, they're not "elites," only elitist. I won't call them "elites," because they are not.
I think instead of spending our time thinking about how we can't change something, we could be spending our time thinking about how we CAN.
Let me be clearer in my explanation, it's obvious I was not, in that previous reply.
"It's always been that way", is not waving a white flag of surrender, it is saying, suspect everything and everyone, that were and are in positions of power. That also includes long held narratives and truth.
Elites...this may be quibbling over semantics, but in the system we live in, the string pullers are Elites and in most cases were elevated by the peasants, especially the lowest elite class.
Do I consider them above me, as human beings? No, they eat, breath, dress (the act of), and defecate just as I do. They are not ethereal or God like, they are humans, no more or less, than I.
While you and I have not done so, many peasants, have elevated these Elites, in stature above themselves. This elevation is a direct process at the lowest levels and then done by proxy, as each elite stratum elevates the next.
Many ask, "how is that?"
The easy and seemingly benign example is hero worship and idolization of a sports fan. How many have spent thousands of dollars (yearly) on tickets, jersey or memorability, of a sports figure?
They will spend hard earned money (even in hard economic times) to wear a shirt, emblazoned with another human's name. Not their own name or that of their relative, but a stranger...a millionaire, playing a game...that has no idea the jersey wearer even exists.. It becomes even more preposterous, when you consider that the sports figure, contributes nothing tangible to the peasants life...they don't contribute to their household budget, restore their power after a storm, unclog a toilet, feed their children or come and extinguish a house fire. In wearing this badge of fealty, they show the world that they hold the named person above themselves and in a deluded way think they gain status and glory, from the paid for one sided association. This applies to actors, musicians, authors, MSM figures, influencers and the like. Anyone who's job it is to sell you a product, message or ideology, through an entertaining media. None of these peddlers, could have risen to any height, if they were not patronized, repeatedly.
Within our current and many past civilizations, the humans at the top (the string pullers) were and are the Elites. Does that mean they are untouchable or unable to be toppled...no, history has shown that.
It does mean, until they are toppled, they alone or collectively steer the larger direction of societies and global realities...not us. We only need go back to the last 3 years, for proof.
Lastly, I've never said that things can't be changed. My premise is, in order to change anything, you must understand your adversary and then the battlefield you are fighting on. That goes for the everyday battles as well as the overall War.
You believe the Western media propaganda that Chinese and Russian goods are "produced with cheap labor" and somehow seem oblivious of the economic miracles both countries have performed, lifting billions out of poverty!
Also - Lavrov used the phrase "you are either with us or against us" while describing NATO powers attitude. Don't forget that this phrase is associated with Dubya Bush during his so-called War on Terror.....
I don't believe any of them...is my point.
I believe the reports from Chinese and Russian citizens themselves, as to the conditions they live and labor under, not the reports from Western, Chinese or Russian government officials, with agendas to push.
None of these regimes have ever been innocent of abuses of their power or their people. It has all been self serving for the Elites...the story, as you know, is one that has been playing, on a tape loop, for centuries.
There are no "across the board" absolutes, in the political arena today...and never were.
We must be wise and keen enough, to balance our understandings and perspectives with the fact that ALL national leaders and regimes, will use lies and propaganda to obfuscate or hide a truth.
The Holodomor, is a great example of this, for two reasons 1) it cannot be attributed as Western propaganda (after Glasnost, soviet records verified the deaths and practices). 2) The Soviets denied it, even after it was reported by Gareth Jones.
America has it's similar episodes in there dealings with American Indians, Slaves and the internment of Japanese Americans, during WWII. In each episode, there was some leader, extoling the their sides virtues, while ignoring or hiding their atrocities.
All countries and regimes are capable of these lies and falsehood.
As I said, I don't think Lavrov, is wrong in his speech, but I don't trust his intent.
Something I am curious about (but dreading-selfishly), is the eventual move from the petro dollar to a BRICS like standard. Curious, because if/when that happens, you will see those country's leaders, stand in the yellow foot prints, being held by Western leaders today...and they will be saying "you're either with us or against us".
It may be a moot point, if the Globalists, get a digital currency implemented in short order. If that happens, the chess board, will effectively be tipped and knocked to the floor...that's a different post though.
"America has it's similar episodes in there dealings with American Indians, Slaves and the internment of Japanese Americans, during WWII. In each episode, there was some leader, extoling the their sides virtues, while ignoring or hiding their atrocities."
I agree with much of what you're saying on this post, so don't take this wrong, but these atrocities never stopped. Later days must include a slow dumbing down of the populace, slow economic punishment as in the rising cost of living and the absolute stagnation of wages since the 70's, the continuing, but often hidden racist machinations, and all along, never-ending rendering of women to second-class status and the slow sexualization of children...
The USA was always run by the Parasite (Filthy Rich) Class, with only a few bit of sunlight in there, and those wiped out very quickly.
I also think Lavrov, while not being Utterly Trustworthy (why would that be an expectation, anyway?), sounds to me FAR more like a democratic and reasonable person than ANYONE blathering from the US these days...
What is going on is a reason for DEEP CONCERN to me, economically and otherwise, because what I see as the goal is the absolute subjugation of the American People, and then the rest of the world. Behind all these politicians and those we think of as "oligarchs," are the REAL puppet masters, those who never show their faces, or rarely, and who WANT US DEAD, almost entirely. They are not sane, but control some 90% of the wealth. And they must be stopped.
@The Word Herder
Yep. I just like to remember that we already have the mechanism for fixing all this. It is called the democratic process. A very enlightened and sophisticated piece of social organisation I think. I know of none better.
But, I think, too enlightened, too sophisticated and too much demanding of participation than the majority, the vast majority, of use find acceptable.
So we don't use it.
So this.
very well stated and great addition to fleshing out the American obfuscation.
This for me is why understanding the modern class system (that transcends national boundaries) is so imperative, to the awakening, many are having, after the scamdemic.
It allows people to drop the distraction of national finger pointing and focus on the true orchestrators, of where we are today...the Elites.
The mistake the peasants of old made, was swallowing the propaganda that focused their suspicions on leaders and countries outside their borders and not suspecting their own governments (local and national) of corruption and atrocities.
Thanks for the well thought-out additions!!