No one mentions numbers but Churchill and WWII seem to indicate it's all about numbers. When translated into industrial capacity. Ukraine has 50 million. Russia has 150 million. USA had 350 million.
Ukraine must lose to Russia, Russia must lose to USA. It worked in WWII.
So politics and the will of the people come into play with great significance. Hence the important of PR and the actual narrative.
The Donbas States have about 5 million population.
Ukraine labels them not as States but as Terrorists. Hence in their terms it must be Civil War.
Now for PR they either are Terrorists or they are conversely the victims of Terrorism.
I think it can be shown that they are and have been for a long the victims of Terrorism
That the attitude of the Ukrainian rump towards them is after the nature of terrorist and supports a kind of 'ethnic cleansing' or Chinese Uighur type 'reprogramming'.
If the conflict were seen by the broader public in these terms it is possible sympathy could shift away from fueling the war and supporting the supposed 'victim' and 'underdog' : the Ukrainian State.
The question becomes 'Why support a vicious corrupt State in its pogrom against 10% of its own people?'
The corruption and the viciousness can be shown without problem and spanning years.
A simpler question is 'Why involve in a Civil War at all?'
Another question would be : 'If Russia goes what's to happen to the 5 million so called 'terrorists' in the DPR and LPR?'
For on past performance they'll clearly be candidates for mass extermination here and there by the Ukrainian rump, no exaggeration. Reprisal killings we all know a significant part of the psychology of those people.
Perhaps on both sides, all sides, I don't know, but certainly on the Ukrainian rump side. They've done it in the past and they're doing it now.
As a 'War against Russian Aggression' this is all a precursor to global disaster.
Well global disaster is already here. But it's a precursor to worse, perhaps even to nuclear catastrophe.
Russia does not want to do it and perhaps the USA does not want to do it. But we all know there's low yield 'battlefield' nuclear arms out there and terrorists around the world have been trying to get their hands on them.
Ukraine is rife with such terrorists and they're not in the Donbas. Terrorists and thieves and corrupt officials. They’re currently selling ‘aid’ arms on the black market, we all know, documentated fact.
A small 'false flag' tactical nuclear incident could cause an immediate spreading conflagration no one could stop.
All of that ‘fits’ within the narrative of a major ‘War between States’ perhaps, unfortunately.
But as a question of interfering in a Civil War where an oppressed minority are singled out for inhuman treatment by a deeply corrupt majority ( referring always, of course, to the 'leadership', not the people It goes without saying that actual people as always are mere sheeple, dumb cattle for slaughter, as we witness now ) - it's a very different thing.
Such events, such ‘game play’ just doesn’t fit. Civil wars are ‘parochial’ is the point, or should be, are seen by the wider world as being so.
Why should the world suffer for such a plain and simple thing? And to the individual pampered Westerner - 'why should my gas bill and food bill increase because of their civil war?'
And that is right. Since 2014 the Donbas States and Russia have tried to put the case that Ukraine is waging a Civil War on part of its population and have it considered at the least.
And since 2014 that pathetic and criminal horde of monsters we call our Western Governments have deliberately ignored it and now we have this today.
Mishandling and malfeasance don't come anywhere near characterising it.
And as for long range HIMARS if I were a general in such a conflict the response would be clear. You start throwing stones longer distances then I do, too.
And whereas you throw stones from within the circle out to the periphery, which of course, expands in area the further you go, I throw into the circle which concentrates the further I go. Clear?
This utter, utter, utter madness is all the fault - the deliberate fault of the US of A and the total criminal ineptitude of our 'leaders' (look at that farcical Johnson, look at the lickspittle Australian, look at them all).
There were/are 5 million people there have been begging for assistance for at least 8 years.
Because 'our side' is so mad, so insane, so devoted to the devilish inhuman strictures of the American war and money machine it is forbidden to give it to them.
So, dancing the devil's dance, people die, die, die, everywhere, all day, while profits, rise, rise, rise in American death dealing corporations.
Call it what it is: a Civil War with a 45 million people bully trying to exterminate 5 million people and let it be known there should be an immediate CEASEFIRE.
Let it be known that what is stopping that CEASEFIRE today is Ukraine's demand that Crimea be 'returned' to them first before they will even begin to talk. Ukraine! Not Russia. Not DPR. Not LPR. Ukraine! Ukraine is war mad. Ukraine wants more. And want the whole world to join it, help it, do it with them: exterminate that 5 million it has been persecuting for years.
OR:
Call it what it otherwise is: A war between three States: Ukraine, LPR, DPR, with Russia aiding because we will not. And that war needs an immediate CEASEFIRE and negotiations to commence. And that cannot happen until Ukraine changes its totally unreal and impossible and stupid and childish and lethal to its own population demands.
You should post that response... as a full-on post. Yeah, my brother, you're on it, like a bonnet. I totally agree, and I also think that for a "dumb uneducated" person, you've got a pretty damn good sense of it all, and way of seeing things and imagining things that is very astute and very cool. I don't care what anybody says about you, you're alright by me. Hugs, and cheers.
photos? I'm missing something here...